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Author Topic: 20 Views of the Infant Foetus  (Read 17835 times)


Holly Golightly
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Re: 20 Views of the Infant Foetus
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2010, 12:44:54 AM »
O.k., the lame joke of the title is a takeoff on the title of a difficult and somewhat abstract piano piece by Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992), Vingt Regards sur l'Enfant-JÚsus. But I have only four views to share about Jim . No, I have no baby pictures of him to post.

1.) About a month ago, The New Yawkeh magazine published an article about Vincent van Gogh in which it is claimed that van Gogh did not cut-off his ear, but that tough-guy Paul Gauguin cut it off with a short sword he always carried. I didn't really care about this, but the article had a large self-portrait by van Gogh that set me to thinking that Jim  bears some resemblance to the mad artist. Yeah, there's the red hair and whiskers, but also they both have high cheekbones. Both have a somewhat . . . uhm, "troubled" look in their eyes, but there the resemblance ends, because van Gogh's eyes are somewhat narrow, while Jim 's are (at least when I've seen him) somewhat bug-eyed. Jim  bears a passing resemblance to Vincent van Gogh; I don't know if that's worth mentioning or not.

2.) In addition to Jim 's wild-eyed appearance, there's also his prominent Adam's apple and his remarkably svelte (thin) anatomy. I was impressed by this when I spoke with him after a show in Detroit. (It was in the middle of summer in a club without air-conditioning above a bowling alley, and his slenderness together with the fact that he was wearing that long-sleeved print shirt in a room that was at least 95˚ and him being from NYC led me to suggest at the old Foetus Forum that perhaps heroin was involved, but I was quickly and sternly corrected of this notion.)

Bulging eyes, weight loss and a prominent Adam's apple are all symptoms of hyperthyroidism. Jim, have you had your thyroid checked lately?

3.) The trouble with school is that what they teach you is often wrong. I guess it was in biology class that I learned that males have an X chromosome and a Y chromosome, while females have two X chromosomes. I also learned that in some rare cases males are born with double Y chromosomes. It was said that such XYY males are exceptionally aggressive and sociopathic. This was at the time of the trial of Richard Speck, who in 1966, murdered eight student nurses in Chicago, and it was widely reported that Speck was an XYY karyotype, and that this accounted for his actions. (The article about Richard Speck at Wikipedia provides complete details of the case.)

XYY types are supposed to have a very masculine appearance, and that certainly applies to Jim . This, together with his sociopathic lyrics (e.g., I hate you all. I gotta admit, I can't stand all of you people. The sight of you makes my stomach start to churn . . .[&c.]) and that every Foetus song is a song from hell, made me think, Uh-HUH!  A sure case of XYY chromosomes! when I first heard Foetus in the mid-1980s.

However, I took a course in Police Administration at the local community college a few years ago, and it so happened that at the same time, some young guy in the suburbs here shot a cop. He was soon captured, and the papers and TV news all showed photos of the guy. He had red hair, high cheek bones and an evil look in his eyes. The course instructor (an ex-cop) of course mentioned the case in class, and I stated that this guy had "that XYY look about him, you know?" The instructor did know, and mentioned Richard Speck. (Or maybe I mentioned Richard Speck, I can't recall exactly.)

Wikipedia was up and running by this time, so I later looked-up XYY chromosomal abnormalities and the case of psychopath Richard Speck, and it turns out that all of that is bullshit. Speck had (he died in prison) normal chromosomes, and furthermore males with chromosomal abnormalities are not more violent nor antisocial than normal males.

4.) Jim  is a normal, talented guy. Scary, but normal scary.

 
What exactly is / was the point of this rambling, self-defeating post?  When one gets to point #4, it negates everything in points 1-3.  My English is not 100% effective so perhaps I am missing a subtle nuance, but I suspect not, and it appears to be someone thinking out loud as if deciding whether purchasing rutabaga today is a good idea or not, and they finally decide that, yes, today is a good day to purchase rutabaga (they looked dirty and spoilt at the farmer's market, but in fact turned to be perfectly edible).


DLJ
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Re: 20 Views of the Infant Foetus
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2010, 12:47:47 AM »
O.k., the lame joke of the title is a takeoff on the title of a difficult and somewhat abstract piano piece by Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992), Vingt Regards sur l'Enfant-JÚsus. But I have only four views to share about Jim . No, I have no baby pictures of him to post.

- - - -

4.) Jim  is a normal, talented guy. Scary, but normal scary.

 
What exactly is / was the point of this rambling, self-defeating post?  When one gets to point #4, it negates everything in points 1-3.  My English is not 100% effective so perhaps I am missing a subtle nuance, but I suspect not, and it appears to be someone thinking out loud as if deciding whether purchasing rutabaga today is a good idea or not, and they finally decide that, yes, today is a good day to purchase rutabaga (they looked dirty and spoilt at the farmer's market, but in fact turned to be perfectly edible).

i am going to pee myself.
rutabaga?


MindlessAutomata
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Re: 20 Views of the Infant Foetus
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2010, 01:01:27 AM »
wow, so here we have some discordant discourse!
 
thank you both for keeping it adult...it will be a dark day when discussions here devolve into "f-you", "no, f-you!". 

Amused observation:

I've been tickled by the lack of cussing on this forum, and especially the self-censoring, despite that Foetus' music is filled with profanity ... [liberal snip]
 
i think you'd you'd be hard-pressed to name more than 5 Foetus songs with cuss words in the lyrics.  from ALL foetus, stermax, wiseblood, ruin etc albums.  that's what - 40 give or take?  ten songs on average, 400 +/-?
 

I wasn't just counting that, I was counting the overall themes (sexuality, racism, etc) of the music as well.  I meant "profanity" in a more broad sense than cuss words, I should have said "obscenity" instead.   I'm not making any argument or point here, it was just an amusing observation.


MindlessAutomata
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Re: 20 Views of the Infant Foetus
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2010, 01:02:53 AM »

What exactly is / was the point of this rambling, self-defeating post?  When one gets to point #4, it negates everything in points 1-3.  My English is not 100% effective so perhaps I am missing a subtle nuance, but I suspect not, and it appears to be someone thinking out loud as if deciding whether purchasing rutabaga today is a good idea or not, and they finally decide that, yes, today is a good day to purchase rutabaga (they looked dirty and spoilt at the farmer's market, but in fact turned to be perfectly edible).

I'm pretty sure a large quantity of alcohol was probably involved somewhere in the creation of his post.


DLJ
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Re: 20 Views of the Infant Foetus
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2010, 01:14:42 AM »
I wasn't just counting that, I was counting the overall themes (sexuality, racism, etc) of the music as well.  I meant "profanity" in a more broad sense than cuss words, I should have said "obscenity" instead.   I'm not making any argument or point here, it was just an amusing observation.

dig that - indeed.  all pretty much tongue-in-cheek, though i suspect there are a few who just take things at face value and assume he's a racist, misogynistic, homophobic, murderous lout.  haven't seen evidence of that here, tho - i think everyone gets his humor / commentary, and entendre-bending.


MindlessAutomata
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Re: 20 Views of the Infant Foetus
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2010, 02:03:56 AM »
Why is there a word censor on JGT's name?  Am I not supposed to use his last name?
« Last Edit: February 01, 2010, 02:05:53 AM by MindlessAutomata »


MindlessAutomata
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Re: 20 Views of the Infant Foetus
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2010, 02:09:34 AM »
I wasn't just counting that, I was counting the overall themes (sexuality, racism, etc) of the music as well.  I meant "profanity" in a more broad sense than cuss words, I should have said "obscenity" instead.   I'm not making any argument or point here, it was just an amusing observation.

dig that - indeed.  all pretty much tongue-in-cheek, though i suspect there are a few who just take things at face value and assume he's a racist, misogynistic, homophobic, murderous lout.  haven't seen evidence of that here, tho - i think everyone gets his humor / commentary, and entendre-bending.

I think part of my amusement is usually when you get those sort of themes in music, you have angry kids dressed head to toe in stuff from that Hot Topic store that think they're rebels for smoking under the bleachers before school starts, while Foetus attracts a completely different crowd.  Might be because angsty highschoolers have poor musical taste, thankfully.


NodmiTheSellout
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Re: 20 Views of the Infant Foetus
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2010, 02:53:30 AM »
I've been tickled by the lack of cussing on this forum, and especially the self-censoring, despite that Foetus' music is filled with profanity, violence, so on so forth.  If someone gets offended here I'm not sure Foetus is for them ;)
My whole rant's been more about drawing weird conclusions about someone based on, well, the reasonable variance in human appearance. I touched on the use of language and blah blah blah but that was just a tangent. I readily admit that sometimes I just like to see myself type, particularly when I don't have anything else to do (which is most of the time).

NOTE: The following ramble isn't really intended to apply to this forum, it's just. . .what it is. So "well this place doesn't have anything like that!" is pretty irrelevant. Just making conversation, really; it's pretty dead here otherwise.  :P

Anyway, I have no problem with "foul language" in and of itself--I mean there's really nothing offensive about "fuck" or "shit" to me, because those words don't get their power from devaluing a group of people. And the "problem" I have with other language that does is pretty mild, it's sort of "in an ideal world". I can understand not wanting to spend seconds brooding over how to phrase something when you're just throwing letters into a forum and it's really of no consequence. . .but when I think about it, it's a pretty shitty, selfish way to act, you know? "I don't care what hurtful shit the words I use contribute to, I want to be able to type my post in less than a minute!"

Then again, demanding thoughtfulness has a way of draining many conversations of their color for a lot of people.  :-\ It's something I've been conflicted about, I guess. Inconsiderate jokes/word choices/etc. have gone a long way to alienate me from friends and communities in the past, so I can understand why it's a good idea for people to think before they speak (or type). But in a lot of cases, the alternative is a community of people who feel that they can't say what they mean, that feel stifled by "political correctness". I mean it's not something so simple as, "Someone posted, "Take some Midol, bitch!", I'm leaving!", but things like that build up and begin to make an impression about the type of people who are welcome in a given place, and those that aren't.

Yeah, definitely conflicted, heh. I don't really remember how I got on this subject, either. It's probably something that all smooshed together in my head.

BUT MUSIC IS DIFFERENT, YEAH. I guess I feel like there are very few people who hear Foetus (or Wiseblood, etc.) without knowing what they're getting into on some level, so it's not like the lyrical content is a constant bombardment of poor images upon impressionable ears. It doesn't make much logical sense to argue like that, though, because whether something is 'bad' or not can't be hinged on something so fickle as popularity.

This kind of thing is something I've been struggling with for a few years now, ever since I went, "Yeah, I'm fucking sick of being talked down to, objectified and treated like shit. . .oh crap, that means I'm a feminist, doesn't it?" Yeah, there are problems with the music I like. . .but I still like it. I still don't have any interest in giving it up because of something like that, I really don't want to scour the internet for music based specifically on my social values. It seems so backward to me. I guess the people who do that are more passionate than I am, or something. Better activists. Whatever. People ain't perfect.

EDIT IN LIGHT OF THE PREVIOUS POST: Mostly because of the poor music taste, yeah. Although to be entirely honest, I don't understand why some of the angsty types don't like Foetus. Is it because they have no sense of humor about being angsty, so the style of the lyrics doesn't really work for them? Sometimes I think the actual sound is something that would appeal to a lot of younger people. . .maybe I'm just out of touch though (more because I'm a hermit than anything--I'm not trying to say I'm mature). Most everyone I've tried to introduce with this kind of outlook has kind of gone, "That's not bad," then commenced listening to whatever shitty metal band they paused to listen to Foetus. It's always those sorts of kids who say "I listen to everything!", but I can list practically every band I like (excluding the 'cultural legend' type shit like Johnny Cash) and they'll go "Who?"


MindlessAutomata
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Re: 20 Views of the Infant Foetus
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2010, 03:15:26 PM »
EDIT IN LIGHT OF THE PREVIOUS POST: Mostly because of the poor music taste, yeah. Although to be entirely honest, I don't understand why some of the angsty types don't like Foetus. Is it because they have no sense of humor about being angsty, so the style of the lyrics doesn't really work for them? Sometimes I think the actual sound is something that would appeal to a lot of younger people. . .maybe I'm just out of touch though (more because I'm a hermit than anything--I'm not trying to say I'm mature). Most everyone I've tried to introduce with this kind of outlook has kind of gone, "That's not bad," then commenced listening to whatever shitty metal band they paused to listen to Foetus. It's always those sorts of kids who say "I listen to everything!", but I can list practically every band I like (excluding the 'cultural legend' type shit like Johnny Cash) and they'll go "Who?"

That's what I was implying--you'd think they'd be all over this stuff, but nope, you give people a listen to Foetus, they say, "that's not too bad," and then forget about him--my experiences mirror yours.  Actually, my personal Foetus experience is an inversion of that, though--my brother, a smug and elitist metalhead (you know the type--the metal version of the "indiefag.") was playing Foetus in the car and I fell in love and wanted to know what this amusing piece of brilliance was (It was (Not Adam)), I fell in LOVE (hee hee hee) and over time began to devour the rest of the Foetus discography.

I'm also quite amused by you bringing up the people that say "I listen to everything" when they clearly don't, I've been making comments about that recently to people.  My own mother's facebook profile music says she "loves all kinds of music" yet shrieks when I try to play Steroid Maximus because it's associated to that awful Foetus devil music (which she has no idea what Foetus sounds like, she looked up his wikipedia page, but whatever).  Of course, she listens to Nickelback.  Half of these people even think that "techno" and "electronic music" refer to the same things... I think these people confuse "I listen to everything [on the radio]" for "I listen to everything!"

I think part of all the really crappy music some people listen to (I have bands like Slipknot and Korn directly in mind now) is all about the image and how marketed it is--those kids don't really want music, they want an identity and they try to find one by attaching themselves to all sorts of gimmicky bands.


DLJ
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Re: 20 Views of the Infant Foetus
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2010, 12:15:25 AM »
Why is there a word censor on JGT's name?  Am I not supposed to use his last name?

hah!  when you mentioned censorship i wanted to make sure that nothing was set up by default, and i tested it by adding "Thirlwell" (so if you typed "Thirlwell" it would change it to "god" - just playing around), then followed the directions to remove the censor...which apparently didn't work.  i'll have to figure out how to remove it.
- - -
EDIT: fixed.  thanks for the heads-up.
 
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 12:21:44 AM by DLJ »


Keith Otis Edwards
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Re: 20 Views of the Infant Foetus
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2010, 08:47:32 PM »
I wish to sincerely thank the Lord High Global Moderator (and here I am not being disingenuous) for his many comments and at least having the honesty to admit that he was scolding, because it all made me think about some fundamental issues that had previously escaped my attention. They are:
 
I. THIS IS AMERICA
What is basically wrong with the United States of America is that-- from the Rev. Dr. Pat Robertson to Ms. Professor Catharine MacKinnon, LLD -- it is more than anything, a nation of scolders. We have gone from the principles of human liberty of the Founding Fathers to a president's wife changing the national motto from E pluribus unum (which no one knows) to JUST SAY NO! and coercing young women to take vows of celibacy (the net effect of which was a rise in teenage pregnancy).

Politics in the USA has been reduced to two sides of hypocrites pointing fingers at each other and scolding as loud as they are able. Every Congressional hearing I see on the news consists of nothing but some grandstanding politician scolding someone. That's why the government, at every level and for all practical purposes, is broken.

Previously, when legislation did get passed, it usually took the form of such laws as
The Mann Act (under which Charlie Chaplin was prosecuted)
The Volstead Act
The Comstock Act (which, among other things, forbade disseminating information about birth control)
The Harrison Act
The Controlled Substances Act

Scolding writ into repression.

II. "IGNOBLE SALOPARD" !
One would think that, just as there was a French Resistance during the Nazi Occupation, and that there was a plot to kill Hitler (which almost succeeded), there might be some small sanctuary, some safe house in which to escape this ubiquitous scolding in America. Surely, if anywhere were free of scolding, it would be the Foetus Forum at the Foetus website!

Yes, you'd think that, but apparently you'd be wrong. I posted a remarkably innocuous series of whimsical observations, ending with the sentence, "Jim Thirlwell is a normal, talented guy. Scary, but normal scary."  My first post at the site, and immediately I'm scolded for it!

So why was I scolded? Because THIS IS AMERICA! (Haven't you been paying attention? Shame!)  Americans scold whenever an opportunity presents itself. Of course, what I actually wrote had nothing to do with the scolding I received. What happened was the Lord High Executive Moderator was demonstrating his authority over the playground and letting me, the new kid on the block, know just who was in charge. Scolding, asserting moral superiority, is power, and that's why all the people named above employ it. I presume His Holiness the Arch-Moderator to be a gentleman (in both the best and worst senses of the word), and I doubt that he ever told anyone, SHUT UP AND GIMMIE YER LUNCH MONEY!  But scolding is so much more effective than that. What defense is there against it? We, all of us here, obviously admire Jim Thirlwell, so the perfect tactic would be accuse someone (me) for being insufficiently reverent to Him. "Heresy! Blasphemy! A thousand years in Purgatory!"

Others have commented that they are grateful that this board lacks the usual banal epithets that are hurled at places like YouTube. Such crude comments (posted, I assume, by kids just discovering naughty words) are commonplace and annoying  (like insects), but I instead believe that far worse is someone standing over you with a metal ruler (or spiked rosary) scolding you: SILENCE!  WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU? YOU MUST BE WEIRD! UNCLEAN! UNCLEAN! IMPURE!

Well, I spent most of my life in the inner-city of Detroit, so I got a thick hide, and I invite the Lord Nodmi to do his damnedest. Let's see what you got, boy.

I freely and eagerly admit to being weird, which is why I listen to Foetus. I'm weirder than anyone you ever met, and I'm proud of it (at every board, I use my real full name), and calling someone a weirdo only worked well for you in high school, anyway, so you're gonna need to bring a better weapon than that. You don't write very well, so that'll trammel yer efforts. What else y'got?

Come to think of it, if you delight in scolding, why on earf are you the Supreme Allied Moderator of the Foetus board? If you're worried about "weird" or "kind of creepy" people, wouldn't you be more compatible at the Vampire Weekend forum or the Talking Heads discussion?

III. "SAY WHAT YOU MEAN AND SAY IT MEAN"
But the most important thing this experience has taught me is that I now have no reservations whatsoever about the lyrics of Foetus. Before, I had, similar to the attitude expressed by His Excellency the Gloatal Moderator, regarded the mayhem of the lyrics as sort of like the Saw movies -- shock-horror entertainment.

But now, they seem to me to be a natural healthy reaction to such prissiness as demonstrated above. Stronger and more effective than the European Death Metal boys or the Gangsta Rappers, Jim's (Clint's, Stumbo's) extreme in-your-face attitude rings true against the culture of conformity and scolding and "you're kind of creepy." (For the record, Yes I am.)  Not just here, of course, but whenever such prissy imperiousness presents itself, Foetus is the right answer. The music and the lyrics are of a piece and cannot be separated. It's very angry stuff, but if you're not angry, you're not paying attention.

As long as this Forum is allowed to be ruled in such a manner, there will be nothing worth reading here. There will be no humor, and humor is the best indicator of intelligence. And it's not just about me; it's about the next guy who gets scolded and the guy after that and so on, until the only safe thing to mention here will be shirt sizes.

Whup! My upload has finished, so I'm outa here.


DLJ
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Re: 20 Views of the Infant Foetus
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2010, 10:18:39 PM »
I wish to sincerely thank the Lord High Global Moderator (and here I am not being disingenuous) for his many ...
 
What happened was the Lord High Executive Moderator was demonstrating his authority ...
 
I presume His Holiness the Arch-Moderator to be a gentleman (in both the best and worst senses of the word), and I doubt that he ever told anyone ...

&c
 
...I'm pretty sure Jamie is a chick.  Almost certainly; quote "my fellow woman" way back on page 1.
This is the Foetus Forum - of course every fan is a guy  ;D


DLJ
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Re: 20 Views of the Infant Foetus
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2010, 10:32:31 PM »
Come to think of it, if you delight in scolding, why on earf are you the Supreme Allied Moderator of the Foetus board?

to answer this, i made Nodmi a global moderator because they were sharp at spotting the infrequent spam-bot, and they seemed to visit the forum frequently (much more often than i do, in general), thus an ideal candidate to squash spam-bots posts.
 
we didn't sign an agreement or any such thing, but that was the sole purpose - spam assassin.
i am quite confident that they do not go about deleting or editing posts that may be in conflict with their own values or thoughts (and your conversation bears that out).
 
the only thing not allowed on the forum, at this point, is public discussion about file trading insofar as where to get free JGT stuff, whether available for sale elsewhere (in print) or not (out-of-print) [see Announcements].
anything else goes...though that assumes people continue to be "normal" in the broadest sense of the term (i.e.: if someone decides to post "maybe the dingo ate your baby" 200 times, that's kinda obnoxious and their posts will probably be deleted).
 
so...you are not being scolded, or otherwise, from a moderation point of view, it's purely person-to-person.  this forum is not being "ruled" in any manner that you seem to perceive.  until either one or both of you agree to disagree, your conversation will continue.
the only "rule" is a lack thereof (with the exception noted above).
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 10:40:15 PM by DLJ »


MindlessAutomata
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Re: 20 Views of the Infant Foetus
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2010, 11:31:02 PM »
you're scolding her for scolding you.

heh heh heh


NodmiTheSellout
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Re: 20 Views of the Infant Foetus
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2010, 01:50:51 AM »
I gotta say, the fact that you assumed I was a dude kind of lets me know that maybe you do need some scolding, now and again, KOE. I don't think scolding by politicians is really effective on "people like us", going on an assumption that Foetus fans generally aren't real big on blindly listening to traditional authority figures. It becomes background noise; that's how it is for me. But when someone who I regard as a peer--usually concerning interests, not so much age--scolds me about something, I pay attention, because they probably "get it" but still think it's wrong, whereas a politician probably doesn't get it.

But yeah, I kind of forgot what you were rambling on about. Oh yeah, abuse of authority or something? 1. I have no authority. 2. I'd hope that if it ever came about that I edited or deleted a post for an ideological disagreement, that I'd be immediately stripped of my moderator status and maybe banned from the forum, depending on what it was.

Considering this isn't my own personal forum, I won't ever edit anyone's posts or anything like that, I was just making it clear that I'm not preventing you from posting whatever you want; you just can't do it without being called out on it if it's objectionable. I'd expect the same of any decent, honest forum.

Anyway, as goes for your other bits. . .Seeing people high on various drugs tends to annoy me, or frighten me (depending on the drug and all; the "frightened" is actually more to do with drunkenness, which is legal, ha-ha), but I believe they should be legal. If I don't like 'em, I don't use 'em. And in my experience, when something's legal for someone to do, they're less annoying about it.

I don't think censorship in any form is the way to go in making the world a more accepting place, either; fining, jailing and bleeping people don't make ugly sentiments go away, they just turn that ugliness into a freedom fight. I think people just have to stop being afraid of responding and explaining. . .people have to be more understanding, or something. I understand the urge to roll your eyes at someone basically going "be nice!!", because sometimes it's just so much more fun to say something quick, cool and mean, and it's not like I'm innocent of that.

I keep trying to condense this bit, and make it a little less whiny, haha. Basically, my sentiment isn't well simplified to "be nice", anyway, it's more "consider your audience's feelings before you speak", because it's people consistently not doing that that leads to problems. It's not that people can't tolerate a few insensitive comments, or weird judgments, or anything like that. It just becomes, for some people, a situation where that's all they encounter--and every individual has the power to break a shitty pattern like that.

I understand that this seems stifling and, in effect, can be stifling because few people want to spend forever brooding over how to phrase something online, but enh. . .just making conversation, here. I've seen people manage to keep away from discriminatory language and maintain a sense of passion in their posts, buuut, those are usually people who have a gift of clarity that many (including me) don't possess. :P

Of course I'm a hypocrite, 'cause if someone just recited an "offensive" post to music, I'd interpret it as ironic on purpose and give it the OK, ha-ha.